Post by Phoenix Suns on Dec 19, 2018 0:06:23 GMT -6
Roundtable Discussion
Seasons greetings, Guru Basketball! I'm the Phoenix Suns, Editor-in-Chief and guy-who-doesn't-watch-movies-he-watches-cinema.
I'm here with the Mavs, Wolves, Bucks, and Thunder, who are ready to chat about all things basketball.
Thanks for being here, fellas!
Wolves: Thanks for having me!
Thunder: Good to be here.
Mavs: Looking forward to talking shop!
Bucks: I'm a doctor.
Sure you are, buddy.
Bucks: Here's my business card. It turns into a sponge when you put in water!
Let's get this discussion started.
In the real NBA, is John Wall tradeable? If so, give me your best potential trade that makes sense for both team.
His contract:
Age 28: $19,000,000
Age 29: $38,000,000
Age 30: $41,000,000
Age 31: $44,000,000
Age 32: $46,000,000
Mavs: John Wall to the Lakers. Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Ivica Zubac, and future draft picks for Wall and stuff.
Does Hart really have to be included? Isn't Lonzo enough given Wall's awful salary?
Mavs: Hart may not have to be included, dunno.
I feel like Hart would be someone the Lakers are willing to give up for Wall, and I think the Wizards would ask for him.
Fair enough. Not sure he's a great fit as he doesn't play defense or move off ball, and he's a worse shooter than Kyrie was. Thunder?
Thunder: Absolutely not. Well there is always going be a GM out there that makes a supremely stupid move, I just don’t see this kind of happening. He is an all star but the contract is just too much for a player who doesn’t seem to put in effort on defense or off ball. Plus did you know that contract has a 15% trade kicker? Untradeable.
Bucks: Depends on if a team is okay with having a great name and player without any of the finished product. Besides me screaming franchise player while hitting a game winner over my buddy in 2K16, not sure he's worth that type of contract. Doesn't take over games like a Westbrook, Lebron, GIANNIS, but is getting paid like one and isn't getting any younger (I think he's had one significant injury). I'm not really sure who would want him on that contract.
I definitely wouldn't want him if you're the one who treated the injury.
Wolves: Reggie Jackson $17,043,478 / $18,086,956
That can probably happen at least for this year and Detroit can figure it out after that, and even though the Wizards accept a major downgrade it fixes their cap and hopefully (ha no it’s Reggie) their locker room. That Wall contract is gross though. Maybe Phoenix would do it? Seems like a very SUNZ thing to do.
How dare you. The very functional Phoenix Suns are an institution, and Robert Sarver is a national treasure. Wait, I misspoke. I meant to say, the Phoenix Suns are so dysfunctional they should be institutionalized, and Robert Sarver is the villain in National Treasure.
Outside of Doncic, Ayton, and Trae, who do you feel was the best fantasy asset from the 2018 rookie class thus far?
Thunder: Jaren Jackson Jr. I think has shown that he can stuff the sheet and will be a good fantasy player this year and into the future. Still young at 19 with lots of room to improve. Honorable mention Wendell Carter Jr. who has looked like a good contributor with a solid floor.
Wolves: J-J-J-Jaren Jackson Jr! He’s right behind Luka in “He’s only 19!”’s per minute. I didn’t look at the numbers or anything, but that’s how I feel about it.
“He’s only 19!”’s per minute is the best metric out there after "If you don't like that, you don't like basketball"'s per minute (which De'Aaron Fox leads). What say you, Commish? Jaren Jackson or Jaren Jackson?
Mavs: Jaren Jackson. He's looked so good and he's able to space the floor for Marc Gasol while also being able to play down low. It's like the Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph days all over again!
Bucks: Since I'm lazy, I didn't put a lot of research into this. but besides MILES BRIDGES...I'd have to say Jaren Jackson?? Absolute steal, still pissed cause that was MY draft pick (I think)
Looks like JJJ is the consensus pick! Speaking of consensus picks, 9 out of 10 doctors* recommend Laramie Cigarettes to stay thin!
*Doctors of Philosophy with a focus in Nihilism
Bucks: I'm the one doctor who didn't.
Because you're against smoking?
Bucks: Because the Marlboro rep is hotter.
Looking at the Guru league rules, how do you feel about the idea floated earlier this year, whereby you would be able to convert one of your 3 re-signs into an amnesty up to a certain amount (say, a contract of $21,000,000 or less guaranteed)?
Thunder: I don’t know how I feel about it. While I understand the sentiment, I’m always looking at how a rule can be exploited and the kind of team it can create. I think it would push the value of rookie contracts even higher then they currently are, and with so many teams already loaded up with rookie contracts I think it may change the power dynamic a bit. I’m a bit of a fatalist when it comes to rule changes but might want to see some restrictions on how it was used. (not used in last year of window or something? I don’t know)
Bucks: I guess one of the re-signs could be utilized to be an amnesty, or we could have 1/5 year period...idk. It seems like we are really getting past all the shit contracts...I mean, come on man, I waited out Greg Monroe.
Mavs: I'm not a fan of it. I understand there are some risky contracts that GMs give out, but when you look at the intention of the resign, it's meant to solidify the talent on a team and converting a resign to an amnesty would just mean teams potentially have one less cornerstone in their franchise to build around. I'm hoping my reign as commissioner of Basketball Guru comes to an end and I hand the keys to baby Wolves when the dilemma of a team signing a player to a really, really bad contract happens. We also have to consider just how long it takes a contract to be considered bad and worthy of an amnesty. The Blazers had Chris Bosh's contract which was well up in the 20m range and they came out just fine. It's possible for a GM to trade the contract or just hold onto it until it expires while still having a good team.
Baby Wolves first act as commissioner is changing the league from basketball to Fortnite. With the 1st pick in the Guru reload draft, I select Ninja!
Wolves: It's cute you think Baby Wolves first move isn't to dissolve your team and purge all the Canadian filth from this league.
: o
Wolves: As to the question... pretty meh, personally. I’ve been privately doomsaying for a while now that we’ll have a cap crunch someday where teams have to make some unnecessarily tough, “bad” choices because there just isn’t space around the league anymore. But this past offseason kind of quieted that fear for me--clearly the GMs are managing their teams with an eye forward. And if we do wind up with a problem like that, it seems simpler to solve that problem by just introducing another straight-up round of amnesties for everyone. As it stands, though, the whole point of playing in a salary league is managing salaries. The tough choices are fun.
That's debatable. I had to choose between a Baconator and a Dave's Double earlier today, and let me tell you, it was a real Sophie's Choice.
From this list, tell me which 3 players are the most improved fantasy players since last year:
Derrick Rose, Javale Mcgee, Rodney McGruder, De'Aaron Fox, Montrezl Harrell, Jarrett Allen, Tristan Thompson, Pascal Siakam, Nemanja Bjelica, Bryn Forbes, Buddy Hield, Serge Ibaka, Rudy Gay, and Josh Richardson.
Mavs: Tristan Thompson, De'Aaron Fox, and Montrezl Harrell. I didn't like your question so I rephrased it a bit and choose the three players from the list you provided who have improved the most AND increased their trade valuation the most.
Thunder: Hey Mavs, whaddya know, I like Fox, too : )
Mavs: Your opinion is irrelevant. We are the Mavs. Your players and picks will be assimilated. We will add their biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile.
Another typical Mavs social interaction. Who else do you like, OKC?
Thunder: Hmm, let me see...
De’Aaron Fox – Looks a lot more confident this year, much better at finishing and the passing has improved. Do you guys know he’s also pretty fast?
Derrick Rose – Really going through a resurgence this year and flashing why he was the youngest MVP in league history. Really hope he keeps it up and escapes the injury bug, maybe even pick up 6th man.
Pascal Siakam – Taken a huge jump this year. Thriving in the new raptors system and one of my favorite things to watch about the team. Raptors have looked great this year and his contribution has been huge.
Bucks?
Bucks: Jesus Christ, I should be figuring out where sodium goes in the proximal tubule of the kidney, not doing research on which player has improved the most. Siakam looks legit, seems to be carving out a strong role in Toronto (Bucks 1-0 Raptors). Fox looks legit, saw him live and he's scary quick and has a decent 3pt shot on him. Also saw buddy hield live, has that alpha scorer mode, was always afraid of him getting hot, but then the buks won the game by 44
You should do more research on the liver, because every time you mention being a doctor, it makes me wanna drink. Wolves?
Wolves: The math says it’s Rose--he’s averaging 18 more FP this year than last (the biggest such difference for any of these players), and he’s already played more games than he did last season. By the way, I hate having Rose on my team and would love to trade him. He is available.
For what it’s worth, I expected the answer to be Fox. That kid looks great this year. Shout out Tristan Thompson, who I had no idea is averaging 31FP/game!
4 votes for Fox, 2 for Siakam, 2 for Rose, 2 for TT. Interesting! The correct answer was JAVALLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MCGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Mavs: No, it definitely wasn't.
Sonics: I blew off this entire interview and never responded, and even I have to chime in here and give that a big ol' nope.
Lakers: Ditto. And I'm a Lakers fan!
: (
Bullies. Moving on...
2nd Rounders in Guru seem to have lost a lot of trade value over the last two years. Why do you think that is, and what you think the current value of a second rounder is worth in a salary dump?
Bucks: Second rounders have lost value because it's really hard to hold onto a player in our league who brings zero value unless you're tanking AND THEN...what's the point of holding onto a guy you get in the second round. Even Blazers doesn't have any second rounders on his all tank extravaganza. I got lucky with Okogie...A second rounder is a nice sweetener on a deal...it's just really unfortunate we have to decide to sign a second round player and hope he has that instant impact (aka the lord and savior Brogdon). Would love a small G-league in our league. Second round picks probably worth a couple million. Loved throwing them in when Mavs took my second rounder a while back
Mavs: 2nd rounders are not worth too much in the NBA either. You just don't get elite, resignable players from there. If you're drafting from there, you're most likely not going to be keeping the player you draft. The first round has a high potential of drafting a resignable player. In terms of assigning a valuation to them, it really depends on the team. The only justifiable reason I can see a team primarily trading for second rounders is because they have a lot of cap space for the current season that they don't plan on using and they might as well get an asset that will last longer than the current season.
So, again, it depends on the team. If I have $10m in free cap space, I might allocate 30% or $3m towards acquiring second rounders if I think $7m is enough to trade on and sign free agents.
Thunder: I think that people are realizing that while many 2nd round players turn out to be contributors, it can be a guess around draft time. It can take a couple years for them to get going (Look at Harrell) and roster spaces are at a minimum. I think the current value is right around 3 mill, although situations vary.
Yeah I think the current value is around $3m, plus or minus 500k depending on the situation and level of patience.. If you're willing to wait several months into the season and negotiate, you can push it to 3.5m. 3m if you're willing to work on it over a few weeks. 2.5m if you're in a rush. 2m if you're really desperate.
Wolves: I am shocked to hear that second rounders had real value two years ago. I continue to have no idea what they are worth, but I do think they will increase in value now that we’ve added the option to keep them for four years.
Let's talk about the untalented, unsophisticated, and very likely hideously deformed Denver Nuggets. They're considered the heavy favorite to win EOTY. What are the best 3 moves they've made to improve their team, and why?
Wolves: The two simplest things are exceptional drafting and signing Kyle Lowry. The Lowry thing is a gimme, and there’s certainly some luck to drafting. Beyond that, the main thing Denver has done is be completely willing to cut players that aren’t helping to make way for players who are. It can be so easy to hang on to players for too long, or because you don’t want to eat the salary--it took Bucks like two years to cut Greg Monroe. Nuggets has made sure each spot is contributing and it shows.
More Monroe references in this Roundtable than a John Quincy Adams biopic co-starring Norma Jean (+10000 points to Griffindor if you get both parts of that reference**).
Thunder: Was I supposed to be keeping a notebook to keep track of what a genius he is Gale Boetticher – Walter White style? Anyway, the moves I think have improved his position have been:
Trading for Siakam – Obviously tied to his breakout, but I think this will turn out to be an even better trade for him as Siakam continues to improve and the overrated Josh Hart gets less time in Los Angeles.
Drafting WCJ – Took him one pick before me, I think this was a great move as he has a big future in the NBA, believe this guy has a high floor (even if his ceiling is not as high as some of the other prospects)
Drafting Shai – Another good move, I think much of the Clippers success has been tied to his ability to contribute out the gate. I had him pegged as a Jamal Crawford type but maybe his ceiling can be higher than that.
Bucks: Denver's best move was taking Teague from me...cause Fuck jeff (that my be his first name) Teague. Signing of Favor and Lowry were solid veterans who get buckets and points. He also has Brogdon who is the greatest basketball player since the last second rounder who made a solid impact
Mavs: I refuse to give Nuggets any credit for anything, ever. Pass.
That was the correct answer. It was a trick question. Everyone who deviated from this answer is now on my Nixon Enemies List.
Wolves: Was anyone in the league not already on your Enemies List?
Yes. You.
Wolves: Oh : (
**John Quincy Adams authored The Monroe Doctrine. Norma Jean is Marilyn Monroe's real name.
Will Philly ever come back to Discord? What message would you like to send him if he reads this?
Bucks: Philly will stay away. Would probably try and get him back by saying, hey bro need some advice on tinder, and NO I don't want delon wright.
The only Wright brother you want is Wilbur, right? ; )
Bucks: I'm a doctor. Doctors are smart. I definitely understood that reference.
Wolves: He's thinking of Wilbur the pig from Charlotte' Web, isn't he?
Definitely.
Back to the Philly question. Thunder?
Thunder: I’m not sure, some cuts go to deep to heal. I’d wish him the best and harass him asking if John Collins was available. I’ll start checking my forum inbox, hit me up.
Besides the Denver Suckits, which GM has been the biggest surprise for you, in terms of success thus far in Guru this season?
Mavs: I've surprised myself with the amount of success and winning I've had this season. This season has not gone according to plan, I miss the warmth of my tank.
The warmth of a tank, eh? Mavs favorite porn star:
Wolves: So far the surprise team for me is the Thunder. Always a playoff team but I wouldn’t have called them at second in the league at this point in the season. Early jumps for Sabonis and Fox and a solid return for Gasol were pretty big parts of it, though, so it’ll be interesting to see if they keep it up.
Bucks: I'm pretty encouraged by my tanking ability and recent pick-ups. I didn't think OKC would start 6-1, will be interesting if he stays this strong. Always taken aback by Raptors complete 360 from competitor to tanker to competitor ( I think this happened)
Thunder: Am I allowed to say me?
To paraphrase Henry Ford (on the Model-T), you have it in any color you like, as long as it's NOT Denver.
As much as I want to say I expected it all along, I didn’t expect to be ranked 2nd this far into the season. A lot of people didn’t even rank me in the top 8, so I guess I would be the best answer. Dallas has also been doing well, especially considering their hoarder-like need to draft every member of the 2019 class.
Yeah you've looked great this season!
Besides the tankers, who has been the biggest disappointment for you among the potential playoff teams?
Thunder: I thought Toronto would be closer to the top of the table. I guess it could be tied to Kristaps being out, but I expected their team to be in a better position at this point in the season.
Wolves: I’m sure the Knicks would love to be higher than .500 halfway through the season just as much as I would. The Knicks have had significant injuries, though, I just made some poor signings. So probably the Timberwolves.
Mavs: Probably the Bucks.
Are you gonna take that, Bucks?
Bucks: Mavs really likes sticking it to tanks.
Zing!
Bucks: To answer the question, though, my man T-wolves, confused how he's 4-5. Also the god damn 76ers gave me a win cause he can't sign a few players to get him over the hump and cut them...if I don't get the first pick when I should've and it's his fault he can stay the hell away from discord (I don't actually mean it, I want him back.)
Let's change gears. What's the one rule you would most like to see changed in Guru?
Bucks: We have rules? I can't remember if this was changed, but it would be cool if we could trade that year's draft picks while the draft was happening and only then. Maybe something like help new GMs not make bonehead moves like Greg Monroe for Myles Turner when they don't know much...idk...RIP my team.
Greg Monroe hasn't been this relevant since 2015.
Thunder: I can’t really think of one of the top of my head, and can’t remember a rule change that has benefited me, so ill be wary of any significant change.
Mavs: I'm interested in how Minnesota will answer this question, but if I thought a rule needed to be changed I would have proposed it to the league by now or changed it myself.
Minny?
Wolves: I really like our league, and don’t really want anything about it to change. But that answer is a cop-out, so here’s this: I’ve poked around in some other dynasty leagues, and I’ve found that there is a not-uncommon way to deal with waived salaries where, when a player is cut, the team is responsible for 100% of the current year’s salary, and then just 50% after that. I think doing that could be an interesting idea that gave GMs more flexibility and addressed the possible need for amnesty we were talking about earlier.
I have also heard Guru had RFA at the outset, and am sad I missed out on it. Bet it would be fun and also awful.
Food for thought!
If I gave you 1 contract for free, which of these five would you take:
Kristaps Porzingis (3.6m, 4.8m)
De'Aaron Fox (4m, 4.2m, 5.3m, 6.9m)
Bradley Beal (10.5m, 10.5m, 10.5m, 10.5m)
Lauri Markkanen (1.9m, 1.9m, 2.8m, 3.8m)
Gary Harris (7m, 7m, 7m, 7m, 7m)
Mavs: Lauri Markkanen. Can Fox be a truly elite point guard without a jump shot? Gary Harris is just a decent deal, not exceptional. Bradley Beal's deal is nothing extraordinary either. Since Porzingis is injured, uncertainty in Washington with Beal's future, and Gary Harris playing on a very deep, loaded roster...the obvious answer is Markkanen.
Wolves: Beal, probably, for my current team. In a vacuum I’d probably pick Fox, since it’s a dynasty league and all, but Beal is good and he’s good, consistently, right now.
Thunder: I already have Fox, so I would take the Markkanen contract. I’m a bulls fan and while I may not see his ceiling at that superstar level, I think he will be a solid contributor with a few all-star appearances in his career, maybe even in the final years of that contract (or earlier, who knows in the east). Complete homer answer because Beal is probably the better option.
Bucks: Kristaps is the one I want, but motherfucker is real close to the unhappy triad (think Tom Brady) without getting touched. I'd pick Gary Harris, he gets buckets, and that's all that matters.
Wow, some really varied answers! I would probably take Fox. Like Linsay Lohan at a party, all five guys at once were considered.
Let's jump to another hypothetical. Would you re-sign LeBron James in Guru if he was on your team for 21m, for a contract that begins in his Age 35 season? If so, for how many seasons?
Wolves: Yes. Three, with a year four option, and a finger on the rebuild button. It’d really depend on the rest of the team though.
Mavs: No. I've been adamant about the Sonics fucking up when they traded for LeBron James. Father time is undefeated. If I were to resign him though, it would be three years with a team option on the fourth year. I could totally see an argument for a two year + team option contract too but LeBron James is such an unbelievable player that I do think he has another three years of elite play left in him. It would be best to have him test the markets in off season free agency, but there's no way Sonics does that.
Thunder: I think you have to, even if its not for the full 5 years. He’s just too good to give up right?
Bucks: No. No matter how strong the guy's rectus femoris and biceps femoris long head are...his body will break down eventually....God I'd love to see how strong his rectus abdominus and trasversalis abdominus muscles are...amongst other abdominal muscles.
I think I found the girl for Bucks.
Mavs: What is that scarf she's wearing?
I believe that's an Ascot.
Mavs: Hey, that's a big word!
Thunder: He's one of them. Get him!
*gulp*
In the real NBA, who is reaching the Finals out of the East? Raptors, Bucks, Celtics, or 76ers?
Thunder: Raptors. Think they are in the conversation for best team in the NBA right now and still have room to get better.
Bucks: The Bucks...next question
Mavs: Toronto Raptors. The Bucks are the second most likely team but I don't think 2019 is this year. Either way, we all know Golden State is winning.
Wolves: *deer noises*
Two for Bucks, two for Raptors. Looks like I'm the tiebreaker. *looks at fantasy team* I have to choose one over the other... between Kawhi and Giannis?
In the real NBA, who is reaching the Finals out of the West if Golden State has
injuries and gets knocked out early? The Nuggets, Clippers, Thunder, Blazers, Grizzlies, Pelicans, Lakers, Spurs, Wolves, Jazz, or Rockets?
Mavs: The Denver Nuggets are best equipped to win a championship if they don't ever have to face the Golden State Warriors.
Bucks: Nuggets look like a legit TEAM, I'm interested to see what they do. Blazers close second.
Wolves: The Thunder, and I’d be absolutely gleeful about it.
Thunder: Almost hard to imagine. Maybe the Thunder? If they keep the defense up to its current level then I could see them being competitors
I'll conclude the roundtable by asking you the same question I asked the last panel:
Excluding the Knicks, Pelicans, Suns, Mavs, Toronto, Minnesota, and your own team, if you could start with one current Guru roster in Dynasty, which franchise would you want to own long-term, and why?
Thunder: Probably Dallas. They have a good team now with a bunch of solid young players and could pick up a couple more next year if the lottery works in their favor. A lot of directions and flexibility.
Dallas was not one of the options.
Mavs: It should be!
Bucks: who would want to be mavs... fuck that. Portland is the easy pick IMO, Bulls and celtics would be fun, maybe...idk trying to tank right now
DONE...back to the kidney fam
Me too.
Wolves: The Sixers, because the team is solid and the salaries are nice and balanced, but I’d pick the Nuggets if we knew about Boogie. That’s crazy.
That Boogie contract has a chance to be crazy bad. Here's hoping!
Thank you very much to the Mavs, Wolves, Bucks, and Thunder for participating!
